I was exactly in Jessica’s position. In the third year of the marriage, I told my husband we needed to get our finances under control. I designed a budget and suggested we try to live like sensible people, at least until we could pay off the credit card debt that he brought to the marriage and that by then was out of control. He patted me on my pretty little head and threw it out.

In the seventh year of our marriage, I decided to leave, largely because of the chronic financial situation, which he quietly hid from me. For a variety of reasons that had nothing to do with the underlying problem, I was persuaded to stay.

By the 25th year of our marriage, we were three-quarters of a million dollars in debt, down from the high of one million. He had signed a personal guarantee for a loan his law firm had taken out against the building it owned and occupied; his partners were embezzling from the firm and the nation was in a recession. The bank called the loan.

Fortunately, one of the partners’ wives had insisted that the loan documents exempt wives’ sole and separate property from liability, and fortunately, I had come into a small inheritance from a long-lost aunt.

Enough was enough. I walked. To keep our child in the expensive private school he was attending and to send him to the college of his choice, my mother-in-law and I borrowed against every liquid penny we had to avert my then-husband’s bankruptcy.

Someone else now has him and his debt. Lucky her!

To make a long story short, the husband left payingthe bills (including the mortgage) up to the wife. She got behind VERY badly. Not just for a little questionable spending but some other family expenses that couldn’t be avoided.

Bottom line is they were literally days away from loosing their house and what little they had!

No help from the bank or the gov (didn’t qualify – thank you Obama!).

Finally someone gave them a personal loan to bridge the debt temporarily so they didn’t loose the house at least. And yes, they are paying it back on schedule with interest.

The point is the wife hid the financial arears from her husband until it was almost too late.

Money is always personal. So we cannot learn how to handle money without also learning how to handle ourselves.

This doesn’t mean that money blogs should become psychology blogs. It means that our understanding of what constitutes a money topic needs to expand.

The old way doesn’t work. That’s the bottom line. We need to try something new.

Rob

You made a really important point. Even though one person may tend to do the finances, if something should happen to that person, the other person would step up in most cases.

Would it be better to learn the skills now? Absolutely. But when push comes to shove, “necessity is the mother of all invention”….right?
.-= Neal Frankle´s last blog ..Friend Discovers Hubby’s High Credit Card Debt and Screams “I Want A Divorce”. =-.

We are stronger for it, together and as individuals.

That doesn’t change Sandy L’s point that, for example, my S.O. is simply better at certain tasks. We mutually agree to leave those to S.O. But we both know that if S.O. isn’t there to handle it, I can muddle through without sinking us financially.

That kind of trust requires a lot of effort to earn. I don’t think Jessica and Vic had that kind of trust to begin with. Now they’re paying a price for it.
.-= PookahBoss´s last blog ..Pookah-kitty =-.

You did a fine job of spelling out where the problems are – they are both stuck in their fear.

Until they both deal with those fears, the solution will evade them.

I personally love the idea of both Vic and Jess getting involved but consider Sandy L’s points (#8) She makes some good ones.

Everyone DOES have flaws. Vic has demonstrated what his are already. Maybe Jess would be looking for trouble if she forces Vic to step up to the plate.

But either way, I’m with you PookahBoss. They really need to work on their communication skills. That may not solve the problem, but as my Grandma used to say,”It couldn’t hurt either!”
.-= neal@wealthpilgrim´s last blog ..Friend Discovers Hubby’s High Credit Card Debt and Screams “I Want A Divorce”. =-.

When I read through the post, the first thing I thought was:

What are these two people so afraid of?

Seriously:
* He didn’t keep her up-to-date on the Financial State Of Our Union.
* She didn’t go over his financial activities so that she’d be familiar with their current situation if hubby gets hit by a truck.
* He didn’t ‘fess up to screwing up until he was caught.
* She threatened divorce – her first (re)action on discovering the problem.
* He rolled over, gave her all the financial matters to handle.
* Assumption (because your post does not mention it, and if she *was* doing it different, I think you would’ve mentioned it): She isn’t keeping him up-to-date on the Financial State Of Our Union.

That speaks of much fear, on both their parts. Look at the patterns of over-reaction and non-communication you describe. I find myself wanting to ask them, How can you just dump the whole load on the other person without even TRYING to share that load?

She was happy when Vic took all the financial responsibility and acted like the grown-up. Now she’s unhappy because she has taken all the financial responsibility and has to act like the grown-up. Further, she still resents Vic for his screwup… three years later! It is well past time where she needed to sit down and either accept his failings or do something about them. Holding a grudge for three years is not doing something about them. I’m sure Vic has quite a bit of resentment he’s holding onto also.

Vic is also to blame. Not only did he royally screw-up their finances, but then he lied about it. Yes, lying by omission is still lying. Conflict avoidance by deception is still lying. “Yes, we can afford it, sweetheart. (No mention of the overdue bills.)” By your account, Vic still hasn’t stepped up to the plate and taken the most basic steps fix his mistakes. Yes, part of being an adult is you admit the mistake, take corrective action, learn from it, and get on with your life.

Now they’re stuck. She blames him. He blames her. They both feel guilty, angry, betrayed, failure, and much more.

I strongly suspect that what started out as not wanting to hurt the other person’s feelings, or make the other person think poorly of “me”, has now grown into a far more cancerous and lethal fear of emotional, passive-aggressive, or possibly verbal retaliation out of (somewhat) justified frustration. I expect the problems here will only continue to grow, until both the people involved start talking again. Because that is the fundamental key in a relationship: Communication. In order to have the healthy kind of communication that a couple needs, both of them need to overcome some fears.

So, with all that lead up, to answer your questions directly:

Why didn’t Vic bring this to Jessica’s attention? I think he was afraid of perceived failure, and her reaction to/rejection of him. There is probably a reason for those fears.

Who knows? Vic and Jessica do.

Does it matter? Absolutely. If they don’t recognize the problems going on here, and deal with them, it will only repeat itself — and probably in a worse form.

Is it realistic for Jessica to expect Vic to become a financially responsible co-steward? Yes. It is not only reasonable, but it is REQUIRED for both of them to be stewards of their family finances. At the very least, Vic must know how to keep their financial ship on course if Jessica gets bedridden with pneumonia or a broken leg. That means Vic must start acting like a responsible adult, overcome his fears, and start learning how to behave in a fiscally responsible manner. Jessica, too, needs to step up to the plate. He screwed up. She needs to get over it, and help him find ways to keep it from happening again. That is part of what marriage, what a ~partnership~, is. She must take on the adult responsibility of teaching another adult to compensate for a serious flaw, overcome her fears, and deal with her relationship with her significant other in a responsible manner. Immediately calling a divorce attorney over money is NOT responsible behavior. (Note: If she was contacting a lawyer for _advice_, not demanding a divorce, then she did the smart thing to protect herself. I don’t know all that was going on at the time and may be waaay off base here.)

Or, …, should Jessica be happy that he’s admitted he’s no good at managing finances…? No, for reasons described above. What if life knocks Jessica down for the count? Who does he have to fall back on to handle the finances, that he can trust – and verify – won’t rob them of all they’ve saved up?

This situation that you’ve described is going to take professional advice to both Jessica and Vic, in my opinion. A reliable marriage counselor and a financial advisor are a must, just to get them talking – really talking – again. Financial health is only part of a married relationship. But it is usually the first noticable victim of an unhealthy married relationship. It takes courage to admit a screw-up. It takes even more courage to admit fear regarding someone you love.

I do not envy them what lies ahead. It will be painful, and there will be tears, no matter how it turns out. They are in a mess. But they have at least taken the first few steps to get out of the mess… on the financial side. Clearing out $67,000+ debt in only 3 years is impressive, and speaks well of their ability to commit. Time to start working on the marriage… if they both want to stay married, that is.
.-= PookahBoss´s last blog ..Numbers Afterword =-.